Ath.Yes;and if this is true,do we still maintain that there is anything wanting in the proof that the soul is the first origin and moving power of all that is,or has become,or will be,and their contraries,when she has been clearly shown to be the source of change and motion in all things?
Cle.Certainly not;the soul as being the source of motion,has been most satisfactorily shown to be the oldest of all things.
Ath.And is not that motion which is produced in another,by reason of another,but never has any self-moving power at all,being in truth the change of an inanimate body,to be reckoned second,or by any lower number which you may prefer?
Cle.Exactly.
Ath.Then we are right,and speak the most perfect and absolute truth,when we say that the soul is prior to the body,and that the body is second and comes afterwards,and is born to obey the soul,which is the ruler?
Cle.Nothing can be more true.
Ath.Do you remember our old admission,that if the soul was prior to the body the things of the soul were also prior to those of the body?
Cle.Certainly.
Ath.Then characters and manners,and wishes and reasonings,and true opinions,and reflections,and recollections are prior to length and breadth and depth and strength of bodies,if the soul is prior to the body.
Cle.To be sure.
Ath.In the next place,must we not of necessity admit that the soul is the cause of good and evil,base and honourable,just and unjust,and of all other opposites,if we suppose her to be the cause of all things?
Cle.We must.
Ath.And as the soul orders and inhabits all things that move,however moving,must we not say that she orders also the heavens?
Cle.Of course.
Ath.One soul or more?More than one-I will answer for you;at any rate,we must not suppose that there are less than two-one the author of good,and the other of evil.
Cle.Very true.
Ath.Yes,very true;the soul then directs all things in heaven,and earth,and sea by her movements,and these are described by the terms-will,consideration,attention,deliberation,opinion true and false,joy and sorrow,confidence,fear,hatred,love,and other primary motions akin to these;which again receive the secondary motions of corporeal substances,and guide all things to growth and decay,to composition and decomposition,and to the qualities which accompany them,such as heat and cold,heaviness and lightness,hardness and softness,blackness and whiteness,bitterness and sweetness,and all those other qualities which the soul uses,herself a goddess,when truly receiving the divine mind she disciplines all things rightly to their happiness;but when she is the companion of folly,she does the very contrary of all this.Shall we assume so much,or do we still entertain doubts?
Cle.There is no room at all for doubt.
Ath.Shall we say then that it is the soul which controls heaven and earth,and the whole world?-that it is a principle of wisdom and virtue,or a principle which has neither wisdom nor virtue?Suppose that we make answer as follows:-Cle.How would you answer?
Ath.If,my friend,we say that the whole path and movement of heaven,and of all that is therein,is by nature akin to the movement and revolution and calculation of mind,and proceeds by kindred laws,then,as is plain,we must say that the best soul takes care of the world and guides it along the good path.
Cle.True.
Ath.But if the world moves wildly and irregularly,then the evil soul guides it.
Cle.True again.
Ath.Of what nature is the movement of mind?-To this question it is not easy to give an intelligent answer;and therefore I ought to assist you in framing one.
Cle.Very good.
Ath.Then let us not answer as if we would look straight at the sun,making ourselves darkness at midday-I mean as if we were under the impression that we could see with mortal eyes,or know adequately the nature of mind;-it will be safer to look at the image only.
Cle.What do you mean?
Ath.Let us select of the ten motions the one which mind chiefly resembles;this I will bring to your recollection,and will then make the answer on behalf of us all.
Cle.That will be excellent.
Ath.You will surely remember our saying that all things were either at rest or in motion?
Cle.I do.
Ath.And that of things in motion some were moving in one place,and others in more than one?
Cle.Yes.
Ath.Of these two kinds of motion,that which moves in one place must move about a centre like globes made in a lathe,and is most entirely akin and similar to the circular movement of mind.
Cle.What do you mean?
Ath.In saying that both mind and the motion which is in one place move in the same and like manner,in and about the same,and in relation to the same,and according to one proportion and order,and are like the motion of a globe,we invented a fair image,which does no discredit to our ingenuity.
Cle.It does us great credit.
Ath.And the motion of the other sort which is not after the same manner,nor in the same,nor about the same,nor in relation to the same,nor in one place,nor in order,nor according to any rule or proportion,may be said to be akin to senselessness and folly?
Cle.That is most true.
Ath.Then,after what has been said,there is no difficulty in distinctly stating,that since soul carries all things round,either the best soul or the contrary must of necessity carry round and order and arrange the revolution of the heaven.
Cle.And judging from what has been said,Stranger,there would be impiety in asserting that any but the most perfect soul or souls carries round the heavens.
Ath.You have understood my meaning right well,Cleinias,and now let me ask you another question.
Cle.What are you going to ask?
Ath.If the soul carries round the sun and moon,and the other stars,does she not carry round each individual of them?
Cle.Certainly.
Ath.Then of one of them let us speak,and the same argument will apply to all.
Cle.Which will you take?